Dave Foley is sadly confused...

very nice

Np! =D<br />
There were limitations of the program, so I couldn't do the eye lids just like I wanted them, but over all I think it helped. Glad you like it =)

o thanks so much! yay it looks much better lightened. the mouth and eyes look better especially. thank you!

After many many many many tries, here it is *Grin*:<br />
http://fanart.ctgameinfo.com/imageboard/general/src/1081597805676.jpg<br />
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(I had to post it in a different type of section in fanart because it was a copy )<br />
Enjoy!

Did you just not get it? Hm... I think I'm just going to post it as a quick sketch and delete it after you D-Load it. Then you can post it if you really want to (I would feel terrible if I left it as my post because I just didn't change enough to take credit for any of it.) It might be up for a while because of possible innability to access the internet, but that just means there is more time for you to download it ;)

ahh! the email still doesn't work! damn i don't get it! i mean, i can get attachments, i can get emails with images in them. what is the problem here? eruh...

Ya! It worked =) Or at least it looked like it did =) I guess it was just your e-mail was too full. It was weird though because it logged me out completely whenever I tried... od.... Oh well. Lol, my e-mail is at 99% capacity ;) It just got there though, but it was at 98% for about 9 months =) There are about 400 e-mails on it. That doesn't even count the first e-mail address I had that I stopped using because it got too full (With no e-mail larger than 8k). I used to talk a lot ;) Now there just isn't any time! (Lol! All though I guess whoever actually CARES to read all this would beg to differ ;)) Anyways, I hope you get the e-mail. My post prolly didn't make much sense because they were actually first written on the e-mail that I was going to send to you. And, because I am smart and don't trust programs, I coppied it before it died, so I managed to post it on here.

o and lol jimbob is indeed a great name for a bassoon! (not as cool as my bass clarinet mr popoff, tho. i know you're jealous). aww poor frank! how could you??? your friend's house must get confusing if people don't know that the names you mention are actually inanimate objects... o and i forgot my 2 eppes (swords) in fencing last year were wally and shaniqua. and my calculator is winston. hehe naming things is fuuuun

o thank you hearsegurl and dabear!<br />
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lol wow thanks so much jyan! don't worry it didn't take long at all! heh i'm such a procrastinator and so forgetful i'd say you were very speedy! sorry if it took you too much time. hmm i don't know why my email isn't working. i deleted a bunch of my bigger mail so hopefully it'll work now since there's more room. but it sounds like it came out great. lol uhh yea just a little confusing... but i'm a littls slow anyway, so i'm sure it's just me. i'll probably get everything you said when i see the pic

I dont mean to break in on your conversation but I have to tell you Jammin thats a very very good likeness...please do more

My little comment. HIYA. Your arte is grrrreat!

How I suggest you look at it is just by opening both this pic and the one you drew at the same time. Then you get them both aligned to exactly the same spot and you switch between and so all that you can see is the changes made. There were some things in the pic that I saw that I could change to make the pic better (I was viewing your pic with a digital magnifying glass to you would have to be a god in order to make a pic so perfect that it is even accurate at the pixel level) but I didn't change any of those unless they were what we talked about on that pic. I did this because if I did that then it would be not as easy to tell how the defining with shading instead of lines went because right now those are all the changes you see and you don't have to bother about checking and seeing if that is what you are looking for. Hm.. I hope I didn't make that sound confusing, lol, it wasn't a difficult thing to try to describe but I prolly messed it up *Grin*.<br />
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The pic looks lighter now because, overall, it is lighter. All of those darker lines used throughout the pic made the pic darker. I was tempted (more than once) to up the contrast a little more when I was done so it wouldn't be so light, but, once again, that isn't what I was trying to show you. If you really want I can do it for you though (It won't take as long as this took me *Grin*). Oh yea, that is another thing. Sorry for taking a while to get the pic done and for keeping you waiting on a promise I made. It is just I haven't had too much time for myself. The pic only took about 20 min to edit lol, and yet it took me about a week prolly to scrounge up that time with the comp *Grin*. This is one of the main reasons why I don't have many posts up =) *Shrug* Oh well, with all of this work I am doing and schooling I'll make millions and one day have all the free time I want to make pics! =D

I didn't post it on Fanart because I didn't change it enough and it would be considered copying. Pretty much all I did was search for wherever you used lines to define an edge and smoothed it out so it relied on shading instead. I couldn't do it on all of the pic because of how heavily it relied on the lines in those areas (like the hat and shoulders). I know it is hard to define edges when there isn't much contrast between the item and whatever is behind it (or just white paper) so drawing just a line to define the edge is tempting. With Anime and such normally it is ok (they normally just use a very thin line) but with realism we don't really have that advantage. If the contrast is too insufficient to define it then sometimes I do actually draw a very light line as a definition, but that is one of those "invisible details" we were talking about. Besides, in real life, if the foreground item and the background's color/texture/lighting is the same then it can often be hard to tell where the boundary is. Sometimes it is impossible! This is especially true if there is a bright light source behind the object.

Lol yup =) It was Yuu Yuu Hakusho. I checked out the fanart for it. Good guess ;)<br />
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The pictures I drew didn't suffer too badly from being drawn from small photos, I think. The pictures just showed me how it should be in general, I knew how the details should be.<br />
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Lol woot! My friend had a basoon, I believe she named it Jimbob =D They named everything around the house, and I mean EVERYTHING. They got upset because I ate off of frank (A paper plate) ;)<br />
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I got your pic done. I tried sending it to you twice but I don't think it liked me =P I didn't want to send it again because it was 300kb and I don't know how much room you have in your inbox. I'll try a few more things though if it didn't already work.

oo drawn from photos, i see i see. that's still pretty impressive tho, if you could draw from pics that were already so small- must've been fuzzy when you blew them up.<br />
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hmm i've never really drawn people in motion before, but i've been meaning to work on that. that's a good idea, drawing from the tv/billy (hehe a lot of my possessions have names, too. meet jesse, my laptop; kurt brandon, my ipod; dave, my cd player; and mr popoff, my bass clarinet). perhaps i'll try a couple quick sketches from the good old tele-v... <br />
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lol uhh no i don't think inconsistent hair is one of goku's powers! (altho changing hair colour is!) and that spirit gun anime, was it yuu yuu hakusho? there's a kid with dark, slicked-back hair and he wears a green suit-thing and fights demons and stuff. (just a guess). <br />
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o and don't worry! take your time with my pic!

Actually I drew them from pictures ;) Both of them were about 1' X 2' and I blew it up to a full page so it was still a little hard. I did, however, do something like that yesterday. For the first time ever I drew something off of Billy (Our TV *Grin*). And also for the first time ever, I drew something that the reference was in motion *Grin* (Not paused). DBZ was on so I did that and got Goku (Is that how you spell his name?) It was confusing to watch though because I was only half paying attention to the show and also I have only seen about two episodes from it before so I was pretty lost *Grin*. The second one was from like 5 minutes of some other anime that I had seen once before but I don't know the name of it. He had a spirit gun that he shot out of his hands or something, it was odd ;) They were pretty successful too, I was surprised. It also helped me tremendously in drawing anime from my head. I think I just had a little hurdle that I didn't know how to get over and when I drew the pics from something in motion I had to have more of an understanding of how the art was. Lol, Goku's hair is all funky because if you ever watch it it never is consistent! If he turns his head his hair shifts! It is freaky *Grin*. Is that one of his super powers? =D Unfortunately they are all too light to scan. I might darken them so I can later, but I'll work on fixing up this (Your) pic first (I couldn't do it before when I was drawing because someone was on my comp).

ooo wow you've already gotten that much done? awesome! thank you so much<br />
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*sigh* tis tru most people here are more anime/manga. the only realism that people pay attention to are things like lotr and harry potter and pirates of the carribean and j-pop. o well i like dave foley and dave grohl and john cusack and those people, so i'll keep on drawing them, as you said. <br />
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aww ok. lol i understand that if your pics are in OH, it'd be kinda hard to get them. that must have been hard drawing from a model instead of a picture. i've only done it once or twice in art class, and i always feel awkward staring at someone for so long. (heh they're probably uncomfortable, too) <br />
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and yea... sometimes i don't know when to stop adding details... but i'm working on that

Heh oO;; kinda feel left out here..I dont have as much to say exept your art is wounderful!!

Lol, want to know something funny? I too would like to see those pics ;) I drew them over at my GF's hous in Ohio and now that I'm all the way over here in Cali I can't seem to get a copy (I gave one to her and one to her friend, they were the two that I drew). As soon as I get it, though, I'll send it to you ;)<br />
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Yea, there is a lot you can put into a pic to make it look good, but sometimes you can also put too much into it. When you are doing the "invisible detail" changes then it doesn't really make that much of a difference if you add too much, but if you constantly do too much or you do too much of a big change then it can effect you piece. That is another hard thing about art, knowing when to stop. I would guess that the only conventional form of art that doesn't have a problem with that is photography ;)<br />
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Hm... yea, most of the people on this web site seem to be more Anime/Magna orientated (3042 Anime/Manga pics and counting) so there probably won't be too many hits for people like Dave Foley =P But it is still cool, draw what you want to draw and don't care what anyone thinks about it except for what you think about it. If you submitted this on another type of web site that did the same type of stuff but was more realism orientated then it would have a lot more posts already.<br />
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I've already gotten the eyes, the mouth, and half the chin done already (I had a break in-between jobs). I did a little to the nose too. I'll have maybe an hour in-between jobs tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to finish it.<br />
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Keep up the submits ;) TTYL

lol ahhh your comments amuse me. hehe i don't mind working, either (moneys!) but i was thinking skoolwork. feh that stuff is just pointless and time-consuming. <br />
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hmm looking at the orginal picture, i think the light is coming from the top, because there actually isn't much shading on the hat. heh i kinda forgot to shade part of it too- the left and right edges of the bottom part. (oops) <br />
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and yes, i agree that detail is incredibly important in all art forms. heh sometimes i lose patience or get lazy and don't add as much detail as i should, but sometimes i just want to keep working on a pic so i keep adding more and more detail. ooo i wanna see your realism pics! can you scan/submit them? yowzer 8 hours! pssh i'm not sure i'd be able to do that- lol not 8 hours straight, anyway.<br />
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hehehe i think you definitely typed enough to warrant some comments! damn but no one will look at this pic b/c not many people even know who dave foley is! ah well maybe there'll be a few comments...

Oh yea, and I can clearly see the reflection in the eyes now =) I don’t know why, but I was looking on the bottom right of them instead of top left. All the shadows and stuff would indicate that that is where the reflection should be but for some reason I looked on the opposite side ;) They are pretty small, but that would be caused by low light in the original picture (The brighter the light, or more directly the light is shined into the eyes the bigger the reflection).<br />
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*Wonders if he has typed enough yet to get someone to comment on the length again* <br />
*gets a kick out of that for some odd strange and unexplainable reason*

I have always thought that drawing, sculpting, photography or whatever form of art you do is allll about the details. It is what the people don’t see or pay attention to that really pulls them in. Whenever I draw realism that is what I do. I do the whole thing, darken it, darken it some more, darken it again (I draw extremely freaking light so I have to darken it several times before others can even tell that there is a drawing there lol. The benefit of drawing like that is you can modify whatever you want when you darken it more. If you don’t like how fat the chin is then you just don’t darken the areas you don’t need to. I don’t know, it is hard to explain and isn’t even my topic lol) and then darken it for the last time and then I start working on those details that no one will ever see. I spend about a third my time darkening, a fourth my time on the invisible details and the rest in actually forming the drawing. Lol, but then again I am a perfectionist and it takes me hours to do my good drawings (Which is why I don’t draw very much *Grin*.) Actually, truth be told, I have only attempted realism twice. Both times took me at least eight hours and both times I was amazed (because they were my first times). I really think that the reason why they turned out so well was because of these invisible details. But that is also the reason why I spent sooo long on it ;) Well, that and shading =D<br />
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I’ll go and lighten the outlines digitally (probably Monday) and I’ll e-mail it to you. There are more things I could do with it, such as fix the scanner errors, but that isn’t what the point of the whole thing is.

The shading on the hat I can tell is tricky. The thing is there is hardly any shading it would have because of being directly hit by light. When you have light the picture perfect realism then the subtleties of that can be shown more easily. But before you get capable of picture perfect drawings you have to work your way up. And while you do that I suggest minor changes ;) Such as saying the hat wasn't hit directly by the light so it would allow you to add a little more shading, or maybe the lip is at a less severe angle so it will show the shadow more or something. To do this you could just add a little shading to the bottom part of the front lip and fade it away upwards. It probably wouldn't extend too far (You don't want to get too different than the original because you know that the original is correct and if you tweak one thing then you might have to do something to something else that it modified). As for the top... I don't know, I'm thinking just adding VERY light shading and pulling out some of those lighter shadows that you can't see right now. Like if the shadows on it already are created by bumps then when the bump on the bright side turns flat again then shade the flat part (The different angle of the bump makes it hit more directly by the light and therefore lighter.) This shading that you are adding is very extremely minimal. Like you can only see it if you are looking for it minimal.

Lol its ok that you didn't make lighter out lines. At least now (when I get time) I can try to change it and so we can both see the difference (I am curious myself actually ;)). Oh, I am fine with working a lot, that just means I get more moolas *Grin*. A fellow employee I was working with today was whining the entire time she was there about working. I was actually enjoying it ;) It is all in the mind!

lol thanks! hehe i'm easily amused, too. ooo ok i understand- please don't get cts!<br />
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ack yea my scanner always messes up my attempts at shading and eye-shines! there is a glinting thing, but it doesnt really show (it's kinda small). and heh yea i knew his cheek looked weird- i think i got a little smudge-happy...<br />
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*smacks head* i forgot to make lighter outlines! i remember thinking about it when i first started the pic, but yea i guess i got a little carried away by frank and the gang. at least i got the nose... o and i think i tried having less definition on the chin, but i probably got caught up in another part of the pic and forgot to go back and fix it. hmm that stepping away from the pic sounds like a good idea, tho. or the leaving it alone for awhile thing. <br />
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sure, if you want to take out the dark lines, go ahead! lol i have no digital image-editing skills, so you can do whatever you like! aww sorry you're so busy tho. hope you don't get too loaded down with work<br />
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mm yea the shading on the hat confused me- i tried a little bit in the top-left corner there, but that's about it. and about the pose- hehe i just thought it was a cute pic. but yes, it was also simple and one of the few pics that i could find of him that were big and clear enough to be a good reference. plus, i'm kinda new to realism, so i've tried picking simple, static references. but i do have a couple more action-y realism pics lined up to draw (especially this cool one of catherine zeta-jones where she's spinning around and her jacket's flying behind her).

With the hat I can tell that the front is protruding, but it would help if you had some shading on it to help portray that. Did you pic a simple pose like this because of ease to draw? It would probably help the pic of there was more focus or motion. I don’t know how much harder something in motion would be for you to draw, but judging on your Gambit drawing not very hard (You did great on it ;)) But then again, there are pics of just plain poses and that is fine too. There are many different ways to draw the same thing, you just need to pick which one you like the best.<br />
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Lol, I just thought of something funny. I am posting with multiple posts because it can’t all fit in one. But what if I accidentally put my posts into the comment box from the bottom up and posted first what I meant to say last and visa versa *Grin*. Ok, maybe it is just that I am easily amused ;)

I don't know if you were distracted by watching Rocky Horror or you just didn't care, but you are outlining again ;) Not as bad as you were before, but I still think it would help if you used shading more to define your boundaries when drawing realistic art. You did a god job on this on the sides of the nose. You defined its dimension without resorting to as much of a defining line. I know a lot of the time it just looks funny or odd when you try something even though you know it should help. Whenever that happens (And actually it happens a lot for me) I do a section one way and another section the other then either work on a different part of the pic or walk away for a while. After I have not paid attention to it for a while I look back and see which one looks better. Sometimes stepping away from the pic and looking at a distance helps too.<br />
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If you want I can try to take out the dark lines digitally and e-mail that to you so you can see the difference. I, personally, don’t know how much of a difference there will be – I can just take an educated guess – because, unlike you, I suffer from too light lines instead of too dark ;) In fact, even after I darkened my lines, I added a little more contrast to one of my pics (Still not submitted, it is a girl and cat) so you could see it and this is the second time it refused it because of it being too dark from the contrast I tried to add ;) So yea, I could try that for you, I am curious myself actually. I won’t be able to do it till a few days from now because tomorrow I have work all day, day after I have school all day, day after I might have some time but I have to get some moving arrangements done but the next two days after that are full of work and school. Lol, so much for the days of having nothing to do *Grin*.

Coolness =)<br />
If I pointed out all of the good things about your pictures then I would develop carpel tunnel syndrome (CTS) because of how much I’d have to type and all the pics I’d have to do it on. Talking about what is good about a pic can help so you know what to repeat and stuff, but pointing out ways to make a pic better is slightly more productive, so that is what I’m trying to do (well, that and prevent CTS ;))<br />
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Proportions are great, sizes, shapes, shading, form and everything is all good too =) I don't know why, but I just like all the lines on the hat ;) There are a lot of smudges but that is probably just your scanner being all picky and picking them up. It helps the eyes look more watery if there is a shine in them, I can't tell if the shine is just smudged out or it just isn't there. Also his left cheek look like a small lump, just because of the small area in which you defined it in. You can make it seem more gradual by either increasing its surface area (take up more room on the face) or by making the shading changes more gradual, making the cheek look not as pointy. Or you could try both.

Love the shadoing! great job!